Studio Lights.... any advice?

[Roborob]

I would like to buy some studio lights and do portraits in peoples homes. The main problem I have is that I have never used anything like this before, so Im in the dark:rofl: regarding what I should be thinking about when Im looking at these.
Does anyone have any advice they can share as to what type and which manufacturers I should consider looking at?
Im also confused about channels! What does that refer to?
My initial thoughts are that I want to get a 3 head (flash) system and a B/G. Am I better buying a kit or seperate lights?
Any thoughts and advice will be gratefully received.

[benjiblanco]

The best advice is to say start with 1 light.... keep things simple, move on when your happy with 1, to 2, then to 3 etc. But on the basis that although it is good advice it is also extremely boring :D sooooooo...

Heads or Flashguns?
Heads give you more power and faster recharge, but have the serious downside of needing power, size/bulk etc etc for transporting.

Flashguns give the ease of being for more mobile, the recharge on them is pretty quick and the power is fine, and they cost more initially.

Channels refer to controlling the lights independently of each other, ie putting the lights on individual channels means every light can be a specific brightness, put the lights on the same channel, you control those lights as a group.

Recommendations...
I have to say that I find Lastolite stuff great gear for the mid priced ranges.

The Hilite background is ideal for shooting in peoples houses as it gives you a pretty controlled environment when there are probably so many other uncontrollable issues to worry about.

We personally use flashguns because of set-up time and mobility, however i would buy a set of heads if budget allowed.

A great kit on offer from Lastolite is this

http://www.fotosense.co.uk/lastolite-lumen-8-portable-professional-studio-bundle-2.html

A 3 head set-up, 2 brollies and a softbox, a hilite with vinyl train + radio trigger.

That would be everything sorted in one great bundle.

I wont reccommend fotosense, just easy to find the link with them. Shop around of course.

Plenty of other manufacturers to choose from, but i find the lastolite gear is good quality, not pro, but a lot better built than interfit and other cheaper makes.

A friend of mine has just bought that kit from fotosense and is over the moon with the gear and the results.

[Roborob]

Ben, Thanks for such a detailed reply.
There comes a time when you have to take one step forward and walk over the edge! I think that time is coming!
Great advice about starting with one light.... That makes great sense to me. Undoubtedly the temptation will be to set them up and fire away, but I can see the value on building up the lighting in stages.
At the moment they all look the same to me, but I trust the knowledge and expertise on here enough to eventually take the plunge and go with the general consensus.
Personal experience counts for a lot, which is why I wanted to throw it open to the floor. I spoke to a guy today in a local camera shop, but he only had one set to offer me. It didnt particuarly fill me with confidence to know that his recommendations were biased!!
Thanks for explaining the channels "thingy", does that mean, the output from the lights is set from a central point? I assumed each light could be set up differently on the back of the light in question.

[benjiblanco]

Yes each light can be set up from from the back of it.

Its more relevant when you out of the studio, but does avoid having to walk to the back of each light to make a small change.

Very relevant when using flashguns as you dont have a big dial to turn saying brighter/dimmer :)

They are much the same, but you do get what you pay for of course.
One thing that is quite important is how upgradeable are accessories to add to your system in the future.
Sticking with a major manufacturer makes this much easier.

Personally, i do like the flashgun route, not only because of being able to carry 4 stands, 4 lights, 3 brollies and a softbox in a small sports bag, but less likely to fall over and knock out a small child. They dont get hot to touch either, so no chance of burning anyone of thing. The other huge bonus is the ability to get into strobe stuff out in the field.

It all depends just how mobile you need to be.

[bryan]

Hi Rob, i use both monoblocks and speedlites!! in the field ill always use my speedlights as there more portable, however i prefer my monoblocks for ease of use and always use these in a studio situation, purely for this reason.

if you go for monoblocks(studio strobes) which ones?, as they all do the same thing, so which to get?

here are the facts, power outputs, the higher the output the more powerfull they are!! simples i use 250 watt heads and never have i needed them up full power, some folks use 150watts and never had a power issue, so thats usefull to know!!

youll also see lots of strobes ranging in price, all similar in power etc, but some are cheap and others cost more than your house, whats the difference?

well build quality for 1, and no 2 well its reliability and consistency of quality of light that they can reach the same colour temp shot after shot :top:

any more questions just fire away :)

[Marvin]

Hi Rob, I see you are asking about channels. This subject occurs in two different forms.

Studio heads are almost always fitted with a slave sensor. It will fire as soon as it sees another flash fire. In other words, if you set your pop-up flash to MANUAL (to stop any control pre-flashes) this will fire your studio head(s). OR you can buy an Infrared transmitter (invisible so no reflections). No reciever needed, the flash seees it as another flash. OR you can buy a radio link. The transmitter sits on your hotshoe and the receiver(s) attach to your studio head(s). You can buy these in 4 or 16 channel versions. Basically, you pick a channel that nobody nearby is using, if there are other photographers very close by using radio links. These only control the flash sync, NOT the flash power. You need to set this on the flash.

OR, if you use the Nikon 'speedlights', they can use the Nikon "Creative Lighting System" where the camera, or a unit attached to the camera, can use light (or Infrared) to signal to the remote speedlights. This not only tells them to fire at the right time, it controls the power of each light, or each group of lights in real time. Each speedlight can be set to a particular channel and that channel is then assigned a power setting from the camera. You can set manual power settings for each group or use the full iTTL control of the camera to automatically control the lighting power. It is a very ingenious, flexible and efficient system. Many Nikon DSLRs have the full control system built in. The SB600, 700, 800, and 900 speedlights are all compatible.

One downside though. Your D60 does not have it built in, BUT you can buy a transmitter unit to control these (SU800 commander, attach to your camera hotshoe) OR the SB700, 800 & 900 can be used as a transmitter OR receiver. IMO this is the way to go as you will probably upgrade your D60 at some time to one that has it built in. This will then bring another light into play. :top:

[Rob_W]

I got the Interfit EX150 Mark II - 3 Head Kit which i payed about £350 for at the time.
Its a good little kit and it does come with a large background, albeit a grey one...

I've never had any power problems, even when shooting in the underground lair, which
was really the only time i've used all three heads together. Now i'm getting to understand
things a little more i tend just to use one light and a reflector.

[Marvin]

I think when Ben said 'power' he was referring to the fact that studio heads need a mains supply, whereas speedlights, using batteries, you can use anywhere.

[bryan]

I think when Ben said 'power' he was referring to the fact that studio heads need a mains supply, whereas speedlights, using batteries, you can use anywhere.

yeah but when i said "POWER" LOL i was talking about ooommffff !! :top:

[Roborob]

Thanks for ALL your input!! Every one of you has added something new to the thread and helped me in some way!:clap:
Having said that....
Ive been looking at various options all night and I still dont know which way to go!
Initially I thought a head would be a good option as it allows a preview of the shadows that are produced prior to taking any photo's. Then after realising that you all use flashes in the field (and sometimes heads in the studio) I thought I should be going down that route, but the cost seems a little prohibitive and also after watching a guy give a demonstration of the Nikon creative lighting system on youtube I came to the conclusion that it looks very complicated to use. The studio heads appear to be fairly straight forward?
I suspect I will probably go down the head route, but my own head is starting to hurt now and I think I need to stop looking at computer screens!!!
The only thing I can say in all certainty is that all your help has been appreciated and that I would be otherwise non the wiser without your help! I may sound like I'm still clueless, but Im definitely a lot wiser than I was 2 days ago!
Sometimes it helps to walk away for a while and sleep on it!!

[Marvin]

Yes, the speedlights are a dearer option but they are not too complex to use, easier in some respects as the camera can control them like it controls shutter and aperture. With studio heads you have to set the power.

As for "modelling lights" (to check the shadows and reflections), that is all built into the creative lighting system :top: You press the preview button and the flashes all fire continuously on low power for about a second, like a continuous light.

It is as complex as you want it to be. Lots of bells and whistles to play with IF YOU WANT TO. But if you want to keep it simple, it will do all (OK most) of the work for you.

I have both, studio heads and Nikon speedlights. The studio heads gather dust most of the time. :rolleyes:

[benjiblanco]

It's quite surprising just how much yuo can do with 1 flashgun and a cheap brollie.

This guy is quite annoying to listen to, but still quite helpful.

http://www.idigitize.co.uk/blog/?p=68

[sharkbait]

if only you could get deals like THIS (http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12314.html) over here

[Roborob]

Having once again reviewed everything you have all said, it becomes quite obvious that flash is the way to go. I put the question out in the forum because I wanted to see what you all use, and what you recommend. It would be a pointless exercise if I then ignored something that you are all unanimous about!!

I guess they only appear difficult because Ive never used them in a studio setting before. Something that Im hoping will become easier with practice.

If I go down the 3 flash route (Nikon Speedlite) Which flashes wuould you recommend? Do I vary them and keep a specific (smaller) flash for the B/G or would you recommend getting 3 flashes all of the same power?

[benjiblanco]

It may have come across that a few of us are more in favour of the flashgun route, but it does have it's issues. Flexibility, mobility and other points already mentioned have to be weighed up with cost.
It's not really more complex in the way it works, but the options become greater and may appear complex.

Flashgun options...

Perhaps it would be good to think firstly about your camera. :)

The biggest issue with your current D60 is that it doesnt have a built in commander, therefore the ability to fire flashguns wirelessly relies on a manual 'flash' trigger, or a Dumb trigger if you like, triggering flashguns with optical sensors.

So you would have to go down one of 2 routes..
Flashguns that have built in optical slaves, or buy slave units for ones that dont.
In the nikon world, the sb800 and sb900 have built in, the sb600 doesnt,

If you want to use a wireless setup that you have control of from your camera you need to...

A, upgrade camera that has CLS built in :D
or B use one of the flashguns as a commanderr.
The sb800 and sb900 have built in commanders, the sb600 doesnt.

or C buy the SU800, which is just a commander.




Other issues....

The sb600 only has 2 channels, the sb900 has 3.
The built in commander on the cam only has 2 channels, the SU800 has 3.

Why is this an issue?
HAving 2 channels can sometimes be restricting, I dont see the real need for ever wanting more than 3 though. (unless you are getting very creative)

A scenario for 3 channels.

Channel 1 = Background light
Channel 2 = Key Light
Channel 3 = Rim/Fill/Hair light.

If you only have 2 channels, you can use 'Distance' to control the power of a 3rd light, but its nice to have 3 and control everything from the camera.



The sb600 can work on channels A or B
The sb900 can work on channels A or B or C
Therefore to have 3 independent lights/groups, you can have 2 sb600s and 1 sb900.

Remembering that if using the sb600s you would need a way to trigger them.

Using a Nikon commander means you can control the whole setup from the camera and the camera can use i-TTL to control them too.
Using the Dumb system, you need to adjust by hand.


One final but important point.
The Nikon CLS works well indoors and ok in the dark as long as the distances are not too great.
If you want the ability to use a wireless system outdoors with reliablity, Radio Poppers or Pocket wizards are needed that use radio, not infra red. These are far from cheap, not far off the cost of a flashgun. :)



Not sure if this helps or confuses, feel free to ask away about anything that i have waffled over too much :)

[munchycarrot]

Rob, i'm not the sharpest tool in the box where flash guns are concerned BUT....

Our set up... 2 set to Channel B for background & 2 on Channel A for the subject. It only ever changes when being that little bit more creative but then it's knowing the kit in depth once you've mastered the 'here's 4 flash guns & i can do good lighting' mode :D

I can't imagine i'd get much enjoyment out of setting up studio heads in a clients house but then I worry a lot LoL & have seen 2yr olds touch & run off with a flash gun here & there.

It's very different if you have dedicated studio space but we don't. Yes, we spent £320 ish on each flash gun but they've paid for themselves easily. I've used studio lights a lot at Uni & wouldn't want to go down that route personally for mobile stuff.

I know a lot of people do & it's my personal choice. I realise I'm probably not adding much to the thread in terms of knowledge & it is a personal thing for sure. I just thought i'd say my bit too!

If you can get to Crewe we'd happily get all the kit out & have a good play with it to give you some idea but i realise you're not that local & it's a bit of a trek!

[bryan]

Rob, where are you most likely to use the lights, indoors or outdoors?
Also on the speedlight front, look 2nd hand!! Sb 28's etc also if your nit fussed about cls, then you can use other manufacturers etc, I got a canon ez430 for £8 on eBay not long ago
As for channels etc don't worry about that it's not required :)

[benjiblanco]

As for channels etc don't worry about that it's not required :)


That surely depends on your requirements.

Being able to control lights independently from each other is a requirement i use every time i use more than 1 light, which is pretty much everyday.

horses for courses and all that.

The whole point of the flashgun route is flexibility. Having more channels means even more flexibility.

[Marvin]

It's no good giving channels to a Canon user, it will only confuse them even more.. :D

Yes, it's a real boon being able to control all your lights without touching them. Even that guy on the video, although he was using a canon, admitted that Nikon really has the edge on flash control. ;)

But be careful, don't fall for the cheap "Nikon compatible" units. They are rubbish, they do NOT work with CLS (or iTTL usually)

[bryan]

That surely depends on your requirements.

Being able to control lights independently from each other is a requirement i use every time i use more than 1 light, which is pretty much everyday.

horses for courses and all that.

The whole point of the flashgun route is flexibility. Having more channels means even more flexibility.

but i can use all my lights/ speedlights independently at different powers, all doing different things, its called maual, and metering each light, giving total control over my photography, sometimes i think We over complicate things. :)

[benjiblanco]

hmmmm true, but it is 2010. :D

Nikon/Canon/Sigma/etc etc spend millions of pounds developing technology to make life easier.
Why buy a a camera with a metering system if your gonna shoot manual.

My camera will meter a scene much better than i ever would, I dont want to faff around metering stuff, i just want to push the button.

Best to learn to walk before you run, but why walk when you can hitch a lift.

[bryan]

hmmmm true, but it is 2010. :D

Nikon/Canon/Sigma/etc etc spend millions of pounds developing technology to make life easier.
Why buy a a camera with a metering system if your gonna shoot manual.

My camera will meter a scene much better than i ever would, I dont want to faff around metering stuff, i just want to push the button.

Best to learn to walk before you run, but why walk when you can hitch a lift.

because who says the camera is right :bum:, what if the camera stuffs up the metering, i prefer to know that its f4 or whatever by metering(, i also like to know what the ambient light is in my surroundings, a quick press of my light meter tells me this info and from that i can make my educated decition. :top:

dont get me wrong i use ttl when i think its required, but i do prefer to meter manually.monoblocks and speedlights, horses for courses :rofl:

[benjiblanco]

lol Bryan...

The camera is NEVER wrong.

It may not always give the user what they want, but thats cos the user is wrong, not the camera :)
I take the view that if my picture doesnt come out how i was expecting, its cos i didnt tell the camera what i wanted.

Like you say though, sometimes pen and paper is better than a computer, and being able to meter manually is the only/better/easier/more reliable/less headachy way.

[bryan]

..

The camera is NEVER wrong.


if only, :shocked: maybe thats why i prefer my monoblocks, because there easier power up/down etc and metering takes seconds :top:

[benjiblanco]

nooooooooooooooo they are never wrong.... :)

Anyway, back on track of the thread, which this is all helping towards.

Keeping your options open.

With the flashgun route you can do everything. Meter manually/meter i-ttl :D, use them in a studio or on the road. Chuck a brollie and a stand in your camera bag with a flash.
With the heads id admit a big advantage is having a huge dial that says brighter/dimmer.
When a flashgun is upside down on the top of a stand, its not so easy to turn up or down, hence the nice thing in my view about CLS.

There are advantages to both, but personally i see more advantage in the flashgun as it offers greater flexibility, which to me effectively means 'more for my money'.

[Marvin]

You get a really bright light that is just out of frame. The camera, quite rightly, ignores it. How does your light meter know? When did a light meter do 3D colour matrix metering? Threw mine away years ago. If the piccie looks wrong, look at the histogram, it tells you much more than a light meter.

[bryan]

speedlites are more flexable and appoligies for high jacking the thread :D

things to concider.

your budget

are you going to use in doors and outdoors

are you going to wimp out and use CLS( that needs line of sight to work)

from this you can make important decitions,

indoors only, then monoblock baby!!!(thats my recomendations)
indoors and out, then speedlites are the way to go, but look at other manufactures and 2nd hand equipment for off camera stuff, older speedlights like sb28's will rock your world and cheaply too,
if you want to wimp out and use cls then youll need expensive newer speedlights but also check out 2nd hand 1's this may just keep your costs down.

have fun in what ever you choose :top:

[Marvin]

... CLS( that needs line of sight to work)...


That's right Bryan. Camera needs to see the subject. Speedlight needs to see the subject. Nothing new there then..? :rolleyes:

Yes, definitely look around for used kit, although prices are still going up it can save you a fortune. :top:

[benjiblanco]

LOL @ Wimp Out Bryan, :D

Perhaps people like Niepce or Herschel would consider using a light meter wimping out, let alone what they'd think of you for using a DIGITAL camera.

[bryan]

That's right Bryan. Camera needs to see the subject. Speedlight needs to see the subject. Nothing new there then..? :rolleyes:



Nigel, what are you talking about , cls cant go through walls etc, so if you want to hide a speedlite behind a wall or door etc, then it wont fire because line of site with the camera is lost!!

[bryan]

LOL @ Wimp Out Bryan, :D

Perhaps people like Niepce or Herschel would consider using a light meter wimping out, let alone what they'd think of you for using a DIGITAL camera.

LOL , but a light meter is the correct tool to do the job :top:

[benjiblanco]

It is a drawback, but it does bounce around pretty well though. In a big studio i can see it getting lost, but in most living rooms, even tucked behind a chair or inside the hilite they still fire ok.
The sensible answer is then radio poppers, but thats for another thread LOL :top:

[bryan]

You get a really bright light that is just out of frame. The camera, quite rightly, ignores it. How does your light meter know? When did a light meter do 3D colour matrix metering? Threw mine away years ago. If the piccie looks wrong, look at the histogram, it tells you much more than a light meter.

there you go, control has been taken away, if that bright light out of shot is affecting the subject, then it needs to be taken into concideration(obviously) how does your camera know what your wanting to achieve, with your light meter you can setup your lighting exactly how you want it:top:

p.s next time your throwing stuff away, gimmae a shout it might be usefull :D

[benjiblanco]

how does your camera know what your wanting to achieve



The Ultimate question!!!!!!

It doesnt really matter how, just as long as it does!!!!!!!

As long as YOU are in control, is the bit that really matters :top:

[bryan]

The Ultimate question!!!!!!

It doesnt really matter how, just as long as it does!!!!!!!

As long as YOU are in control, is the bit that really matters :top:

how very true :top:, you obviously have more faith than me though :rofl:

[benjiblanco]

LOL Bryan...

I do find that looking at the pics when the camera (in your words) goes wrong, and trying to understand why, more helpful in learning to be in control than looking at the ones that go right.

Rob, sorry if this thread has wandered a little, and making everything as clear as mud. We'll get back on track soon :)

[bryan]

LOL Bryan...

I do find that looking at the pics when the camera (in your words) goes wrong, and trying to understand why, more helpful in learning to be in control than looking at the ones that go right.

Rob, sorry if this thread has wandered a little, and making everything as clear as mud. We'll get back on track soon :)

i just dont get pictures going wrong when metering maually its only in ttl this happens, sometimes.just doesnt seem to meter aswell (in my opinion lol)

[benjiblanco]

I guess this all leads to one thing...
At least with Flashguns you have a choice of metering manually or using i-ttl.
Learn ttl and you can be in control or use manual and be in control, either way perhaps better to have the choice if budget allows.
I would say, which cropped up in a post by Christian recently, that environmental portraits, (very big in the states, not so in the the UK as yet) are getting more popular, and I think are a lot more fun. Having flashguns will cover that.

[Roborob]

Im pleased to see you boys have been having a nice time while Ive been away! Dont mind me.... It was quite entertaining!
Im still trying to get my head round Bens post (No. 15).
I have questions!..... and when I know what they are, I will share them with you!!:D

In the meantime I need to go and read it again!

[Roborob]

I think this is starting to become clearer.
Am I correct in thinking that the SB 900 can be used as a commander (triggered from a transmitter on the cam hot shoe), and that it can be used to trigger (at least) another 2 flashes?
If thats true then Im thinking that an SB 900 and 2 x SB600's (as Ben suggested) will indeed be the way I will go.
I did consider getting 2 SB 900's and 1 SB 600, but I suspect that will be overcooking it, for my purposes anyway.
I was tempted to get an SU 800 commander but as has been mooted a number of times in this thread, I may want to upgrade in time and then it would become redundant so I would prefer to get a commander thats in built within one of the flashes.
Im thinking that I will get an SB 600, Transmitter, lighting stand and a brolly now. That will FORCE me to learn to use only one flash first (with reflectors), then in Jan (When the sales are on) I will get the rest of the kit.
Stef... Thanks for the kind offer! Im sure any reservations I have/had would have been laid aside after an hour in the studio with you both. In the short term, the distance is a major hurdle, but that doesnt mean it wont happen another time!
Bryan... Im looking to use them mainly in peoples own homes (Does anyone else do much of this?) to do childrens pics and family portraits.
Does anyone have any further suggestions?

[benjiblanco]

NOt sure you are 100% there Rob :)

The Transmitter is the SB900, or a camera with one built in, which yours doesnt have,

So when you say 'm thinking that I will get an SB 600, Transmitter, lighting stand and a brolly now' you wont have much fun :)

You wont be able to trigger the sb600 without a transmitter to fire it off camera. So the brolly and stand wont be much good lol.

Your plans are good though, as in sb900 with 2 sb600s.

But the sb900 will be on camera working as the transmitter.

[benjiblanco]

oh an by the way, we shoot all our portraits in peoples houses using 4 sb900s. (but using the built in commander/transmitter on the d300). So all 4 are off camera. Mainly high key shots, using the hilite background, because its what most people want.

Its really annoying that the nikon d60 doesnt have the commander.

You are right in thinking that the SU800 is slightly pointless as nearly the same price as a sb900. But it is also annoying buying a sb900 just to use it as a commander.

It might be worth thinking about buying a cable.
That way you could get the commander (the sb900) off camera, using it as the commander AND an Off cam flash, until you have a cam with a built in commander. The cables are not hugely cheap though, but could always be sold at a later stage.

For the stand and brollies, this kit is really good and keeps things small and mobile..

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-essential-off-camera-flash-kit/p10000727

[benjiblanco]

Here are 4 of your main options Rob, excuse the professional sketches :D

The left 2 being wireless, the right 2 using a wire.

[benjiblanco]

bet im making that head bundle i linked to on the first page seem very attractive now?
It does make it look simple and a hell of a lot cheaper lol, but strobe stuff is sooo addictive and soooo much fun once you get started. Studio stuff becomes more of a job, just my opinion. :)

[benjiblanco]

wow 5 posts in a row, i might get banned for spamming soon lol.

Just a thought.... hows about swapping your d60 for a d80? they sell for about the same on ebay.
The d80 might be a slightly older model, but it does have built in focussing and a built in commander.
:D

[bryan]

i currently go into folks homes and do portraiture this was taken in the clients own home using monoblocks, metered manually :)
http://www.tog247.com/gallery/data/504/thumbs/tog26.jpg ('http://www.tog247.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9540')
but TBH im giving up the mobile portait service and in the new year will be opening a small studio, not sure where yet as its a toss up between 2 towns, units are found just need to way up the pro's and cons

p.s this picture was taken on speedlights metered manually, 1 of the speedlights cost a whopping £16
http://www.tog247.com/gallery/data/504/thumbs/tog19.jpg ('http://www.tog247.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9029')

[Roborob]

Ben, Maybe we have slight crossed wires.
In the short term I was suggesting that I have a transmitter attached to the cam hotshoe which would fire the SB600. I dont really ever envisage having a flash on the hotshoe.
Then in the new year I would buy the extra flashes and use a transmitter on the hotshoe to fire an SB900 (commander) and 2 SB600's.
Does this make sense or have I merely confirmed to you that I am losing the plot?

After reading Bens reply (no.42 and No. 43 again, Im starting to think the penny has finally dropped!!!

Does the commander (either SB900 or SU800) have to be PHYSICALLY attached to the camera? if hats the case then I will get an SB600 and cable now. I suspect the answer is gonna be a big YES!!

[benjiblanco]

YES is the BIG YES :)
Lets forget the word Transmitter completely. Were talking CLS, There is no such thing as a transmitter in the range, ish.

So in the first sentence, ' I was suggesting that I have a transmitter attached to the cam hotshoe which would fire the SB600'

You have to swap the word transmitter for SU800, SB900 or a cable. :top:

[benjiblanco]

Rob, if you go the cable route till you have a built in commander, this cable on ebay is much cheaper and more importantly much much longer.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-6M-Off-Camera-I-TTL-Flash-Sync-Cord-Nikon-SC-28-/350328673691?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_ CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item519137559b#ht_2184wt_907

[Roborob]

:D A-ha!.... with the echoes of the dropping penny beginning to fade, the mists cleared and from behind the mountains appeared a big shiney sun! Suddenly everything appeared crystal clear and our budding photographer made his way to the local internet store with his money to hand!!!

Thanks Ben and everyone else who has helped me along the way! I knew we would get there in the end! I bet you didnt think it would take this long?
I have learned sooo much over the last week about flashes and such like, and I also know I couldnt have done it without the help of everyone on here. SO..... THANKYOU!!!:clap:
I also realise that the little knowledge I have gleamed from you all is only the beginning..... I have no doubt that I will have many more questions over the coming weeks/months/ years!

(....... now then, what was that website called again?) :D

[benjiblanco]

Im glad you consider it help and not confusion ROb :D

I know there are scenarios that make this or that system better, easier, simpler, just as effective etc etc

There is no denying that yuo can get the same results spending peanuts as you can with Thousands...
A light is a light at the end of the day and if it fires at the same time as you push the button at the required brightness in the required direction, your photo will look as you required. lol.

This pic is nothing fancy, and of course could have been taken with any lights... but for me Nikon CLS made this a 20 second job, literally, and the result was in my view, pretty good.

This was taken in a dingy caravan, I was shooting a job outdoors and a local councillor asked if i could do him an official portrait.

My camera was on manual, f7.1, shutter 1/160th. (which is usually what i start with for most portraits.)
However the flash power is controlled by the camera, so no metering to worry about, just turn on and shoot.
I knew i wanted to blow the background, so whacked the ev up on the bg flash by 2 stops.

2 sb900's off camera, 1 about 4 feet camera left (i-ttl) in an ezybox hotshoe softbox just hand held by a mate, the other on the floor behind the subject firing up at the wall (i-ttl ev +2)
I think i took 2 shots, lighting was 'perfect' straight away. He blinked in one.
No reflection in the glasses, and pretty good high key background that was really a scabby magnolia wall.
http://www.tog247.com/gallery/data/504/thumbs/BTB1335.jpg ('http://www.tog247.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9820')

[Roborob]

Ben, it was definitely help....It was just me that was confused!
I think given the time and the situation you were in, that the portrait is very good. Im sure he was chuffed to bits with it!!

I have now ordered a SB900 (temptation got the better of me!) and a cable from that guy on Ebay, as well as a lighting stand/ brolly kit.
That will give me a chance to play with it and become familiar with it before I start adding lights and REALLY confusing me!!
Having done all this reading over the past week, I suspect it really will be relatively straight forward once I get my head round the commander bit. I realise that wont be an issue initially as I only have one flash but it will be nice to play!:D
Thanks once again to EVERYONE who has contributed to this thread. I think without you all, I would still be thinking about it!
I look forward to posting a few pics and letting you all pull them apart.... in the nicest possible way of course!:top:

[benjiblanco]

Cool....

with sb900 you will be able to trigger it wirelessly as it has a built in optical sensor, triggering it from your on camera flash.
But this will only be in a manual way, so the wire will be far from pointless as you will be able to use it for learning about i-ttl and further down the line using the sb900 as the master commander off cam too. :top:

[Artisan Image]

Hi
You've already been given some sound advice from people who are far more technically capable and knowledgeable than me but thought I'd add my two penneth.

I started out with One 300 wt strobe and a large softbox and some barn doors and an umbrella and then just practised and played about. My belief is that One light and the right accessories is better than 2 without.
Also think about reflectors or even things like a full length mirror from a charity shop as a way of achieving various ratios of light and shadow for various effects .. I started with alarge piece of mounting board from a craft shop and covered one side with gold wrapping paper for warmer skin tones when required.
Also consider One good light and a portable battery pack

Finally yes it does help when you can afford Bowens lighting but there are great value options available .. One place worth considering is ELEMENTAL .. have a look online. I've always been more interested in the end result rather than the trendy nomenclature on the gear and I buy second hand whenever I can.

Chris